An Interview with Eleonora Manandyan

OK: Yet, although there might be some political motivation behind it, I was encouraged to see that the Armenian Revolution Federation - Dashnaksutiune's Nikol Aghbalyan Union recently came out against corruption in the education sector. Is this an encouraging sign?

EM: I was there at the conference they held and it was so dirty. Orinats Yerkir, the Republican Party and Dashnaksutiune always invite me somewhere as if to use me for their own purposes and at that conference, the three coalition parties were fighting among themselves. I had to say I'm not from an opposition party but I am in opposition. However, look at you. You are the coalition government and see what bad relations you have with each other. When you talk about corruption in higher education you should be together. The problem in this case was that the Republican Party did not want Dashnaksutiune to become involved in student issues. For them, the Dashnaks were interfering in an area they believed to be theirs.

OK: I've heard allegations that pressure was later applied on those students that spoke out about corruption and in fact, I've heard these kinds of rumors before. A few years ago, a small group of students protested outside the Government Building on Republic Square and there were reports that [what is now] the former KGB went to their head of faculty the next day. They were threatened with expulsion if they did anything like that again.

EM: This is usually what happens and it was the same for me when I was a student. However, back then the government also understood that if something happened to me, 8,000 students would take to the streets. Going back to the Nikol Aghbalyan Union, however, I understand that they are only interested in this area because the anti-corruption field is now under the control of Dashnaksutiune and Bagrat Yesayan. So, they're trying to become involved in youth issues and want to stamp their mark on it. The Dashnaks, however, can mobilize a very serious segment of youth. Generally, the Nikol Aghbalyan Union can attract young people who, while lacking a very deep spirit, are at least interested in struggling against something. Unfortunately, however, they can not appeal to other youth in Armenia.

OK: Let's talk generically. Many youth in Armenia don't seem to think that there will be a brighter future tomorrow or even when they reach the age of 30. Yet, at the same time, I don't see any signs of them trying to make their future better. Why?

EM: Recently we've been making contact with students. We have an idea to establish a youth club but until we do, students come here to become involved in some activities and to discuss various issues. They're not passive, they're the most active students, but they're very immature when it comes to politics and even social activities. They are talking about things that we used to discuss when we were thirteen. All they do is watch Muz-Tv but what about literature? Okay, so they're not interested in reading but as some of them are from the Faculty of Eastern Studies they should at least know something about Eastern or Arabic literature. However, they don't know anything. Of course, they want to learn because they're not bad people but even so, they're more like thirteen year olds than adults.

OK: Yet, Georgia had a very strong student movement. Of course, it's arguable whether it was genuinely interested in change or whether it simply served a political purpose but nevertheless, is this simply a question of money coming from Soros to fund Kmara or is it also a difference in mentality?

EM: Of course, there is a difference in mentality but on the other hand, money is an important issue. In Armenia, money is only made available for youth when it comes to the prevention of HIV-AIDS or environmental issues. There is no support for real youth activities but in Georgia it was another matter. You know, we conducted a special investigation on funding for youth activities during the period 2001-2003 and it was published in the Aravot newspaper. For three years, 480 million drams from the state budget was spent on youth issues but all of this money was "eaten" with the full knowledge of the Ministry of Culture, Youth and Sports. The people who took this money were also involved during the Presidential Elections. There are all these youth NGOs but three or four of them belong to one person, three or four to another and so on. They receive money which is then taken by these individuals and the government knows this. However, when it comes to election time, the government then says we know what you've done and therefore, you must support us. Not only that, but they promise to give them even more money.

OK: The environment, however, is very interesting in the context of Armenia. The first protests that took place towards the end of the Soviet era started out under the guise of environmental concerns. Besides, while we can talk about the political system in Armenia, sooner or later it will eventually change. Environmental damage, however, threatens everybody's future and may be irreversible.

EM: The problem is that we don't think about the future. That is the point. People dump their rubbish on the streets, for example, and everything starts from that.

OK: People say that if those at the top don't care about the law, then why should we? Unfortunately, however, the rule of law and respect for the constitution are the main foundations of the state.

EM: We will reverse this situation. In fact, I'm often asked what kind of issue can reactivate not only youth but also society itself and over the past two months I have begun to think more and more that it is education. We are now trying to initiate discussion in society not about educational programs or the law on education but rather its conception. I hope that this will be the area in which some change occurs. We are working with pupils in schools as well as their parents and I hope that this will change something. We have established pupil councils in 21 schools in the Arabkir district of Yerevan and we hope that these can serve as an example to other schools.

We have about 70 volunteers and they will be sent to these schools to work with children and to organize social activities. This started from the beginning of December and we are working with both the community and the schools on this. Later, we will try to do the same in other communities but what about youth clubs? I understand that it is very popular in the United States to have special lectures where people from different political and social backgrounds can come to talk about and discuss specific issues with students. At the end of the discussion some decisions can be made which will then form the basis for further activities by youth to realize these decisions through some common effort.

OK: Do you think that there are similar people like yourself and your friends from the early 90s within the student structures now?

EM: I think that there are some leaders but they are very weak not in terms of experience which comes with years, but in terms of spirit. They have no real desire to fight. However, it is interesting when students come to me and say that something has to be done. They don't know how or even if it's possible but I am happy that they think about such things and therefore, I am optimistic.

OK: Whatever happened to your fellow student activists? If they haven't left Armenia have some also formed NGOs in Armenia?

EM: No. The main part has left the country and those that are here are involved in business or the governmental sector. Many of my very good friends who fought with me against the previous government are now in governmental structures themselves.

OK: But are they pushing for reform?

EM: No. When I meet with them they say that they now have good lives, families and children and they must think about their future. This is very sad for me.

OK: It's interesting to look at what's happening in Georgia. There are some concerns that when much of civil society became part of the new government there was nobody to take their place. However, regardless of whether it is Shevardnadze, Saakashvili, George Bush or even Tony Blair, every country needs an active civil society.

EM: Yes, and this is why I will always be in opposition whoever is in power. Good government needs a good opposition.

OK: This year you spoke in support of human rights at opposition rallies. Aren't you concerned that the government will act against you?

EM: You know, we have many inspections, checking our papers and our financial accounts at least twice a year but we are very clean. In 1996 I had a lot of problems with our government because of speeches I made at demonstrations and as a result, I remained silent for a long time after that. However, I then understood that I am probably more dangerous for the government than the opposition because the people trust me more.

OK: In fact, I recently spoke to someone in her early twenties and she said that she didn't vote during the Presidential and Parliamentary Elections last year because she didn't trust any of the candidates. However, she then said that she would probably vote in the next Parliamentary Elections because she had heard that a very good, young woman who runs a social organization dealing with youth might stand. She was talking about you.

EM: I know and a lot of people call me and tell me that I have to run for President. However, I don't want Armenia to have a woman President.

OK: Why? Are you very traditionalist in that respect?

EM: No, I'm not. Firstly, I couldn't run anyway because I am only 30 years old and according to the constitution you have to be at least 35 but I also think that having a woman as President would be the breaking point for our men. They are already very weak.

OK: But you don't seem to care about that when you take the podium at opposition conferences and tell a predominantly male audience that there are no men in the hall. What did you exactly say?

EM: I said that Kocharian was right when one year ago, while speaking about the opposition, he said that there were no real men left in Armenia.

OK: I've already asked if you would be part of this new opposition bloc if were to be formed but would you prefer to be a small independent party?

EM: I would like to be part of an opposition bloc but I don't see any really good parties or leaders. You have mentioned Raffi Hovannisian but he still has some problems associated with his name and I don't even think about Hovannes Hovannisian because he is not a political leader. Aram Sarkisyan has many problems because of his brother and the fact that he had no right to accept the position of Prime Minister in 1999. It would be another matter if he had refused. Aram Karapetyan has been sent by some forces from Russia and there are allegations that Artashes Geghamian took a bribe from the government. Stepan Demirchyan is very clean but is politically immature and definitely not a leader. I have a lot of respect for Victor Dalakian but he is also not a leader and people wouldn't vote for him. I also respect [former Defense Minister General-Lieutenant] Vagharshak Harutyunyan and have learned many things from him regarding geopolitics and so, am very proud of our acquaintance. However, he is also considered to be a representative of Russia.

Of course, I am categorically against the return of Levon Ter Petrosian.

There is also another bloc that might be formed by Vazgen Manoukyan, Paruyr Hairikyan and Ashot Manucharyan. However, while Vazgen Manoukyan is an intelligent political figure, he lost his chance a long time ago. Paruyr Hairikyan is politically dead and while Ashot Manucharyan is very charismatic and educated, he is not a leader and the people will not vote for him. So, although I don't want to be a political leader, I also can't see anyone else and think that I have some obligation to go to the next Parliamentary Elections even though we haven't money or access to the mass media. For example, when I am invited on television, I am told not to talk about the government and during my last interview on H2 I was asked about our children's center. They asked me about the situation of children at risk and I answered that question by saying, to be honest, all children are at risk in Armenia because they haven't been set any good examples to follow.

Then, during the advertising break, the General Producer of the TV station came and stopped the program. I was told that I had said something political and that they would never invite me on to their TV station again. Similar things have happened on Kentron TV and I don't know what we can do because the mass media is closed to any alternative opinions. Maybe this is the case but I will go to the elections and let the people decide. Anyway, we don't need a lot of money. We just need enough to meet with the people.

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