An Interview with Eleonora Manandyan

Eleonora Manandyan is the President of the New Armenia Social Organization. A student activist when Levon Ter Petrosyan was President, Manadyan is now one of the most prominent alternative voices in Armenia. Increasingly speaking out on social and political issues, Manandyan is considering running for the Armenian National Assembly in the next Parliamentary Elections scheduled for 2007.

This interview was conducted at the New Armenia office in Yerevan, capital of the Republic of Armenia, on 16 December 2004. New Armenia has a web site at: http://www.newarmenia.org.

 

ONNIK KRIKORIAN: What is New Armenia and what do you do?

ELEONORA MANANDYAN: We work in two areas. One is working with children at risk so, for example, we now have a project in the Arabkir district of Yerevan that supports the community and helps improve the work of the local authority. The other area is not political because we don't like this word and anyway, as an NGO we can't become involved in such activities, but it is somehow working with society. We try to increase public awareness on various social issues which are, of course, connected to politics.

However, this is a problem because sometimes when you receive financial support from organizations, including international ones, you are obliged to realize their political agenda even if you do not want to.

For example, we experienced this before the 2003 Presidential Elections with Ashot Agababian, Director of the Hrazdan Stadium, who used to provide us with food for children in need. Then, during the elections, he asked us to take part in the campaign for Robert Kocharian's re-election but we refused. He was fine with this but during the Parliamentary Elections he told us that we had to do something in support of the Republican Party. When we again refused, he stopped assisting us. This happens very often and when I was recently in the United States to observe the US Presidential Elections I spoke to an NGO there, "Americans Come Together," and they said that they sometimes have similar problems. So, it is a problem all over the world and not just in Armenia.

OK: You say that you don't want to become involved in politics but from what I've been reading recently, you seem to be getting involved quite a lot of late. Are you going to be part of the new opposition bloc that might be formed by Raffi Hovannisyan, Hovannes Hovannisyan and Aram Sarkisyan?

EM: No. However, if there is the possibility or opportunity to do something then we should. It is our responsibility and from this point of view, we have already decided to establish something like our own political bloc. It's still not organized yet but it will comprise members from our NGO as well as others. In this case, when we do become involved in political activities we are not going to do so as part of the New Armenia organization but as part of the New Armenia bloc. We are still undecided but we are thinking of standing for the next Parliamentary Elections. Since you raised the question of this new opposition bloc, however, we organized a press conference a few days ago where we said that we were against any political leaders, especially those from the opposition, talking not about problems that need to be resolved in Armenia but rather, about international relations and international politics. We have many problems that need to be resolved but the opposition hasn't any program to address them.

OK: Are you referring to the fact that this new opposition bloc, even though we still don't know whether it will be formed or not, is talking about integration into the European Union and NATO?

EM: Yes. Nobody has spoken about social issues, healthcare or education. We have so many problems -- for example, terrible problems with the education system -- but nobody is talking about them. Instead, the opposition stays idle until something happens in Georgia and it's the same now that something's happening in Ukraine. For our bloc, however, we don't talk about whether Armenia should be closer to the United States, Russia or wherever else. We should have our own national strategy and identity and only then can we consider choosing our friends based on our own national interests.

OK: But we can understand that in order for the opposition to stage a successful "revolution" they need the assistance of outside powers.

EM: Yes, but they don't say we need democracy because it is good for Armenia. They don't say that it's the 21st Century and that's why we can only have this model for the state. They instead say that Europe tells us that we should have democracy. So, we don't want to protect our human rights because we think that we should but because Europe tells us to. In that case, if everything people declare is simply because Europe tells us to, then I am against it. However, if it is understood that this is the genuine model for the development of our country, then I am of course in favor of following that path.

OK: Is society ready to think about such issues? Does it understand concepts such as democracy and human rights?

EM: Yes, I think that society is quite ready to make these ideas a reality but another problem is that Armenians don't like ideas that appear to be pushed from outside, even if they are good. So, we first have to understand that democracy and respect for human rights is beneficial for all of us. Anyway, with all this talk about Europe or the United States, what about NATO? This seems quite absurd to me. NATO has always been concerned more with Turkey so how can we integrate into that system? By the way, this is only my opinion and we have others in our bloc that think differently.

OK: Let's talk about society and democracy. For example, everyone complains about the falsifications that occurred during the last Presidential Elections. People were offered money and their votes were bought. However, while they complain, they still took the money.

EM: Yes, of course.

OK: However, in Georgia during the Parliamentary Elections people actually fought to protect their votes at polling stations. I'm not necessarily suggesting that Georgia is decades ahead of Armenia in terms of democracy but there was definitely a marked difference. Why do you think that is?

EM: People are not able to fight AGAINST something here. They are only able to fight FOR something and this was the main problem that faced the opposition. They didn't say this is what we should do to improve the situation in Armenia but instead said that the government is bad. Yes, we all understand that the government is bad but we don't know if things would be better if they were in power. If someone was to say, however, that we will fight to improve the situation then the people would also fight with them. On the other hand, some people are already talking about some "changes" in March as always, and we have mentioned this special [opposition] bloc, if it will be created. I'm not sure that this bloc will be strong and I don't know if political figures such as Aram Sarkisyan will join because he has Albert Bazeyan and [former Defense Minister General-Lieutenant] Vagharshak Harutyunyan in his circle that will be against it.

OK: They'll be against it because the declared pro-western direction of the bloc?

EM: Yes, because of that.

OK: I know this is probably going off the point but maybe it doesn't matter if a government is pro-European or not because to join the EU, Armenia would have to hold a referendum. It is for the population to decide this issue but nobody seems to consider their opinion on the matter.

EM: This is because nobody wants to think about the democratic process as it is problematic and the same is true with the constitutional amendments. We were thinking of holding a press conference on this but instead made an announcement saying that society must discuss these amendments. People have the right to make their own suggestions instead of having our constitution decided by someone else.

OK: I suppose that people would argue that the population doesn't understand what democracy, the rule of law or the constitution is.

EM: So there should be education and the mass media has to play a role in this or else, why do we have the mass media?

OK: One of my main interests at the moment is youth. It's still concerning to see that youth in Armenia are largely apathetic and cynical. We've had personal conversations about this before because you were a student activist during the Levon Ter Petrosian years. What was the situation like then and what happened to make the situation like it is now?

EM: There are very many different opinions on this issue. For example, I believe that it is always possible to activate youth if the right steps are taken. In 1996, people also said that youth was passive but we managed to organize many student demonstrations [over conscription and other social issues] months before the elections. This was in April 1996 and people weren't even thinking about the Presidential Elections that were held later on in September. Of course, it was also about leaders.

OK: Who was leading the student movement at that time?

EM: Myself and a group of other students. In 1996 I was still a student but also working in a position at University. Of course, after these demonstrations I was removed from that position but thankfully, this was also the year of my graduation. After that, all doors were closed to me but in any case, I understood that we had to fight and this was quite possible because of our ideas and also, because of our approach.

OK: Do you think that it also had something to do with the fact that back then, independence was fresher in the minds of people and they still had hope that things could change?

EM: No, because it was perhaps the wrong time to declare independence. The early 1990s were very terrible with no gas, no electricity and no food. When I was President of the Student Council I was living in very bad social conditions but I knew that other students were living worse than me. I remember crying because I was hungry but I knew that there were others who were even more desperate. The years 1991 and 1992 were terrible times and by 1994 people began to understand that while they didn't have bread, there were government officials driving around in jeeps and so on. This was the time of hate and nothing else. Now, I don't think that we hate our government but instead understand that this is society, that is the government and there is nothing in between. There is no connection between the two.

OK: What should be in between them?

EM: There should be nothing in between. We should be the same. We are the government. They are our servants.

OK: We recently saw students here become agitated over the conscription issue...

EM: I went along to these meetings as a kind of observer and it was very interesting for me. There was a conference organized about the deferment of military service but I thought they would do a lot more. However, they didn't. Compared to what we did in 1996, it was nothing.

OK: What was interesting for me, however, was to see how quickly the government reacted because it was as if they were really concerned that students might become active again.

EM: I disagree. For me, it was another thing. I think the government was testing whether students were active or not and what they could do. After this, they understood that most students were passive and that there were only a few with some ability but who were unable to lead any protest actions. It was also a way to see how much control the Republican Party had over student bodies. In actual fact, they don't have control but they are able to disturb any actions taken by other students.

OK: In most societies, youth and students play an important role in the development of the nation. However, it doesn't seem to me that youth are playing any role in Armenia at the moment.

EM: I was arguing with a very significant political figure about that only yesterday and he said that youth in Armenia are like this because they are still considered children and dependent on their parents until the age of 30. I hadn't heard such an opinion before and I don't know whether it is true or not but it's an interesting idea to think about.

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